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Spiritual warfare.. aka the guilt that comes from her past scams.. aka the pain of taking accountability for your actions is basically “spiritual warfare.”

How "convenient" of him to now apologize and talk about recoverying. What?? He got caught. End of story.

I want to be kind and respectful of everyone, but I find I'm still so angry. I'm angry at the church, angry at pastors, and angry at people like girl defined who push extreme Christian views on EVERYONE. How do you move past the anger?

It was interesting hearing about your win for the week. My husband and I love miniature golf and whenever we are on vacation, we find a local mini golf course to go play.

WFTW - my husband ordered some medieval shields from a trader for our upcoming reenactment this weekend. The trader wrapped the shields in 3 yards of white linen, which would cost a fair bit if I had to buy it. I'm currently sewing the sleeves in as I watch your video 😁

Instead of actually facing herself she chose to spiritually bypass by becoming Christian and shift blame onto demons.

Okay. So. I’m very glad that Morgan has not experienced a mental health crisis like that and I hope it’s true that her faith brings her comfort. I do not want to minimize or deny her experience. *But calling depression “demonic” and “a temptation” is incredibly dangerous.* I cannot emphasize that enough and it infuriates me that they are saying that s***. Literally demonizing people with mental illnesses doesn’t help them. Demonizing medication (including, in my opinion, what Morgan said about trying everything else first) prevents people from the getting the help they need. Demonizing both mental illnesses and mental healthcare is extremely harmful and actively dangerous. I cannot believe people are still doing this.

I think Dave will divorce Bethany. The mental gymnastics both of them are doing is utterly exhausting to listen to, I can't imagine what it must be like for them personally live through it. I just want to parasocially hug them and tell them it's okay to get divorced. It wouldn't be the end of the world.

This whole thing is just giving me the ick for Dav 😬

I think a positive thing we can do as a community is to not judge their journey together! It sounds like they do a good job of communicating their feelings, especially after they both kept their true thoughts suppressed for so long. Whether or not we like exploring philosophy the way Dave does, it seems like Bethany appreciates the way he thinks. Theorizing whether or not Dave will continue to go to church or whether they will have issues raising their kids or not is probably out of bounds for us to do, especially when Bethany says that she doesn’t get it when people in her life want to “grieve with her” when she doesn’t need it. It sounds like they are on a good path together. As somebody in a mixed-faith relationship, while it does take time to adjust to that especially when coming from high control religion, it can be so fulfilling and wonderful to live in a mixed-faith space. I’m happy for them and hopeful that their beliefs will continue to evolve into healthier and healthier perspectives!

Win for the week: I'm finally feeling happy after another depression relapse

Unfortunately not everyone understands or appreciates the fact that faith journeys are personal and can very often contradict our partner’s or family’s journeys. Especially due to the content Bethany creates, it’s no surprise there was a lot of fear to come out and face this contradiction in their lives.

I do believe thar bethany loves and deeply cares about dave. and I feel bad thinking this, but her emotionality reminds me of when I have gotten deeply attached to my past partners because I was scared of losing them, even if there were very present issues I had with them and the relationship. She knows that Dave allows her more freedom than her family. She sounds to me like she is pleeding for their relationship to work out. Im sure she's beyond terrified of what might happen if their relationship ends.

I'm not done with the video yet, but I have to say that if my husband talked about our marriage the way Dav is publicly, on the internet... I would feel so hurt, embarrassed, and concerned that he was staying with me out of obligation.

The problem with these pastors is that they don't have the fear of God. This has to stop!!!

I don't disagree with your thoughts! But it seems like some of my reactions are different from a lot of commenters; For example I think Dave is super intelligent and insightful, and really enjoy his philosophical musings. I'd listen to a podcast if he was hosting! Secondly, I don't think he was being rude by talking about freedom and deciding to stay with Bethany. I think they've had some really tough times as a couole over the years, and probably especially recently as their views have been shifting in different directions. My interpretation is that Dave is being authentic, and also saying he is choosing to stay with Bethany each day because he wants to. Where I do seem to align with other commenters is that I was hurt by Bethany posting anti LGBT things so soon after the collaboration. It made her comments in the video seem disingenuous, and I totally understand Zelphs audience being disappointed by that, but I don't blame Sam and Tanner for focusing on kindness in their responses, as this is the way they think is most likely to open people's hearts.

Christianity seems like spiritual bypassing. I’ve been in trauma therapy for 3 yrs., and having to face every single traumatic moment I’ve ever experienced has been the most difficult thing I’ve ever had to do. It seems like Christians just say screw the hard work Ima just start worshipping God and He’ll deal w/it bc I’m bathed in the blood of Christ..

Everytime one of these tradwives talk about how a husband doesn't want a wife who "talks their ear off", it makes me so sad for them. That doesn't sound like a partnership at all.

I think that text he sent proves you right, B. Obviously we don't know all the details of why he sent it, but it's very likely that it's related to all of this really being too fresh for them to have gone on social media to talk about it as much as they did. They realized they needed to be more private about it. Or at the very least, they decided they talked as much as they should have and are stopping now (but I think you were right, B, and it was already probably too much). Not trying to bash them at all! They made the decisions they made in the moment of their own free will, and that's fine. But I think offering your opinion on it being too fresh is a wise thing to do in case others are going through something similar and have the opportunity to either be really public with something so fresh or to keep it private.

Is it just me or did his long rant that boiled down to "I'm gonna keep my marriage vows" sound like he doesn't want to be with her anymore? Either that, or he wants to find something grounding now that he's lost his faith (my own promise can bind me even if morality doesn't exist), which gives him comfort? I hope it's the latter cuz the former would be sad.

OOF. No wonder Bethany is crying so much in these. It sounds like Dav is really thinking through all his options, including divorce. So strange his main reason for staying isn’t that he loves her and wouldn’t want to hurt her or their family. Just that he previously made a promise to her. This really is a testament to marrying somebody you enjoy being around, and truly getting to know them BEFORE you tie the knot. Fundie marriage sounds like a nightmare.

I don't remember exactly which Christian religion has the specific goal of getting as many generations into "leadership" as possible in political life and abolishing the separation of religion and state.... I have a bit of a feeling that he is one among them....

Thank you for covering this. I wanted to watch the interview myself, but the bad audio quality discouraged me, especially because English is not my first language. It also annoys me when Bethany uses “like” every two words, sometimes it’s very hard for me to comprehend what she’s trying to say lol

Does anyone else think about those rumors of him going to a conversion camp? I do. And I wonder if he’s eventually going to leave Bethany and start living his most authentic life at some point….

God I really hope Dave is more open-minded and continues to stay nuanced in this conversation, and doesn’t do a complete 180 to the other side and becomes so anti religious that it’s just as insufferable as fundamentalism.

She owes god is gray and apology, especially now

Basically, she had labeled her past as “living in sin”, so it’s ALL just one lump of sin. She has labeled her “now life” as “living in Christ.” And, Jordan is her symbol of “living in Christ.” So, Jordan’s support has EVERYTHING to do with the image of herself that she wants projected into the world. Even tho we see through the bs.. so many others don’t want to see, bc they see themselves in her. They want the American Dream like she has.

EXACTLY they’re taking New Age Spirituality on as their own.. just like Christians have done to Pagans for Centuries!

1:09:17 i think Dav is just exploring what morality looks like through other peoples experiences, its not necessarily that he struggles to understand that people can have morals without religion. He was also questioning how religion impacts people's world views and decision making, i feel like he was just flipping that curiosity onto nonreligious people.

I think what Dav is talking about here (and this is just me working through it so dont take this as a true interpretation pls) is that there is a difference for him between compulsary Christian commitment in a marriage vs. the freedom he now experiences in his ability to choose commitment. I feel like if youre looking at it like a man questioning his marriage it'll feel icky, but if you consider that he is a man questioning his faith and that his marriage was built on faith that makes a difference.

She for real took all of her guilt/shame from scamming people with her “custom workouts”.. and dumped it into becoming an extreme puritan.. and is further projecting her guilt/shame onto others.. it’s definitely a case study situation.

We are spiritual beings having a human experience.. that’s 100% New Age Spirituality.. that’s NOT Christianity. In Christianity they believe that humans are created in Gods image. These people are so narcissistic and have taken bits and pieces of other religions and spiritual practices and woven them into their own distorted narrative. They get away with their behavior by harnessing this diabolical “Christian” energy that is so full of superiority and conviction.. it’s soul shaking.

I don't know if you will read this B, but I've been nervous to watch your response bc I was worried about how I might feel with respect to criticisms you might have of this convo between Zelph and Dav and Bethany. I found it really healing to see this growth in Bethany and to see Zelph modeling tolerance for religious folk. However, your critiques have been so well put and respectful that I haven't felt any discomfort so far. The reason for my sensitivity to begin with is religious trauma, and you've been one of the only religious people I know of who live their faith without projecting it into others such as myself, so thank you! Thank you for being a safe person. With respect to why Sam and Tanner might have this soft spot for Bethany, I don't think it's just bc she's been nice. I think its bc Sam and Tanner, like myself, found themselves exiting mormonism the same route that Bethany has been gradually becoming less fundamental. I at one point was saying the exact same things as Bethany with respect to focusing on Christ. When I was almost out, my faith had been whittled down to nothing but Jesus and eventually, that concept just became love. And from there, I didn't need a god anymore. I just wanted to love others and be loved. I think Sam, Tanner, and myself see ourselves in Bethany, and while I think she's treading water to stay with her in group, I do think she's on her way towards where we all landed. I know you can't assume that everyone will have the same path, but I think under certain conditions, the logical conclusions will be the same. Her relationship with God previously was like many of us experienced in mormonism, so the conditions are very similar for a similar result. Idk if that makes sense. I'm not saying our softness is correct, but I think that's the root of it if that helps.

Not sure if I'm reading into this or not, but Bethany's body language in P2 is facing away from Tanner and Sam. The first video she was facing them both, but leaning on Dav, this one she's completely turned away. Just feels off to me.

Idk, I felt kind of bad for Bethany in this video, especially the whole pontification about leaving or staying with Bethany that David went off into. It came off really self-centered, not really taking into consideration how hard that is for her to hear. Idk, maybe they've already had that conversation in private, but if that was the first time she was hearing it then that would be inconsiderate All I know is that if I heard my partner say that he felt like to be truly free he needed the agency to be able to leave me I'd be pretty heart broken

At 50:00 ish, when Dave got philosophical, I took that as him struggling with issues around being avoidant. Namely that he felt trapped by the fact that he had made a decision to commit himself and that it was freaking him out a bit even if he did want to be married to her. Basically, 'Am I just staying married because I feel like I have to? Or am I staying married because I choose to love this person and want to be with them?' Its something that really resonated with me as an anxious person with an avoidant attachment style who has also been married for 12 years. I know it doesn't make a whole lot of sense but your brain can really freak you out about being pinned down sometimes. I also really appreciated what he ends up saying, which is that he is recognizing that those thoughts aren't really helpful or even meaningful because he doesn't want to leave, he's just being scared. So instead, he's been telling those intrusive thoughts that say 'You're just doing this because you have to', 'I'm choosing to be in this relationship with my partner because I love them.' Also, I have donated to Zelph and even through Sam's personal venmo. No one made me. I wanted to do it because I really felt like I've gotten alot from their channel and I saw it like a tip. I get that everyone has their thoughts on this but as someone who has donated to them, I kinda don't see why its anyone's business.

Win for the day: this video to get me thru the short work week 🎉

Dave sounds like he’s struggling with the inherent compromise that exists in marriage-not even the daily compromises between spouses but the compromise between “freedom” and “commitment.” Commitment to one person for life inherently involves sacrifice and compromise . If nothing else, you’re sacrificing the “freedom to leave” as he’s pointing out. You have to choose between complete freedom to follow your desires over anyone else’s and having a deep intimate partnership where you both have to give up some things in the pursuit of each others happiness. He’s not wrong in what he’s pointing out, but it’s interesting and a bit concerning that he seems to just be realizing that at the same time that he’s deconstructing. It seems like something both of them should’ve understood before deciding to get married. Marriage isn’t the end of freedom but it does limit some of your choices, and if you’re not happy with that concept it’s probably better to stay single

i also will say, if you have a giant tax bill, that means you made a lot...

The talk about him not leaving because he'd be breaking a promise is weird. It should be about a lot more than that. It sounds like an obligation.

Yes I agree. Her comment about the LGBTQ+ community was one thing but she ten resorted back to but I think you can only thrive in a marriage between one man and woman. Not if you are hetero. I hope she keeps going further and recognising those beliefs are harmful and reductive. She has come a long way which is great and I am glad her marriage is good but there is more unpack.

Bad faith? B Haney? I think not.

Man…my heart hurts for Bethany. As a Christian myself, (though far from a “traditional” Christian) I believe that I would struggle immensely if I was in her place. She entered into a marriage with a particular vision and that vision has now “crumbled.” She’s said and has supported some pretty terrible things but my heart goes out to her on a basic human being level.

My WFTW - got the kayaks out for the first time this year! The part in the middle where Dav was talking about choosing to stay, maybe I'm confused about the point he was making too, but I wouldn't want to stay on those terms. "I choose you every day and I have the right to leave at any time." I mean, I guess you do, but I wouldnt want to live in the long term position of well, my spouse chose me today but what if he doesn't tomorrow. I feel like that puts the other spouse in the position of always waiting for the other shoe to drop. Is today the day he leaves? It sounds awful! I think its fair for their relationship to experience some changes while they work out these things, and it probably would be better if they took a media break and worked it out mostly off camera. I guess its a good thing to consider every so often if the life you're living is the life you want. But "I have the right to leave," feels very ... self-centered maybe? I hope its temporary that he holds his family in limbo like that while he works through his stuff.

Sam's response was really snarky. I'm not a fan.

Dave is a reminder for me that even though someone may be pulling back or questioning their evangelical christian faith, they can still be oddly conservative and off-putting. There's something about him that rubs me the wrong way and I don't even know if I could describe or even identify it.

🙄 in recounting Seven Brides for Seven Brothers she skips how they kidnapped 6 women and used the Bible to justify it 🤦🏼‍♀️

I struggle with what Bethany is saying here about her older faith mentor encouraged her to explore and lean into her partners deconstruction and stating ‘this has been encouraging and helpful’ because Bethany shares advice on GD that’s completely opposite and harmful. Kind of getting ‘rules for thee and not for me’ from Bethany. I hope that she reflects on this and takes down those videos telling girls not to date men of different faith.

On one hand, it’s positive to sit down with people of differing views. On the other hand, this seems pretty one sided and I wonder what would’ve happened if Sam and Tanner were speaking their minds, too…or did I miss something? It gets pretty dull not having a reciprocal conversation AND not having challenging questions you’d expect from a journalist…so it ends up being a bit boring…

Thanks B! I hope you take the time to watch some other zelph videos at some point ❤